Designing the Su-7, Su-9, Su-17, Su-22 and MiG-21

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Thanks Paragon!!!
J29 and Vautour are great planes you did design:thumb:
I broke my other projekts to do the Tunnan.
First I needed two tries; in the first I confused the upper and lower part of the rear fuselage... I didn`t reflect
Second try was without problems and I`ll post some pics when my daughter will bring me my camera back
btw: I built it in 1:144, meanwhile I love this scale
 
Paragon! Great Work in Vantour and J-29 I Loved this models. Congratulations for a fantastic work! My christimas wish is a see Vantour in other versions and a Yak-25 :twisted:

I think seriously you should consider the possibility to do a website to publish his excellent work better, after all his collection of releases is already quite big and diversified... :mrgreen:

Cheers!

Péricles
 
I found some designs last night that I hadn't seen before, especially including usable 3-view drawings, and I really want to make models of these. I can't really decide whether I want to make them or the Yak-25 first. Chances are though, that I'll make a large number of them at the same time. I'll probably give them all fake names.










 
Paragon said:
I found some designs last night that I hadn't seen before, especially including usable 3-view drawings, and I really want to make models of these. I can't really decide whether I want to make them or the Yak-25 first. Chances are though, that I'll make a large number of them at the same time. I'll probably give them all fake names.










Click to expand...

but please don´t forget the Mystere ;-)
 
Ok, a little update for those of you interested:

Yak-25 Progress: Prototype design complete, no test build

Su-56 - Prototype design complete, test build complete. Minor modifications required. This model is incredibly similar to Ojimak's Su-27 in structure and construction, however I have not, and will not ask Ojimak for permission for this model for the simple reason that the entire model is designed from scratch. While the parts may be very similar to Ojimak's, none of them originated in his models, all were concieved using only the 4-view drawings I have. That means I can probably design an F-5, MiG-25 and MiG-31 the same way from the blueprints and not worry about Ojimak.

Anyway, thoughts on the similarities between the parts as compared above? Once again, I encourage you to e-mail Ojimak about it if you feel the differences are big enough, because I would certainly like to release the MiG-25 and 31 as they are now.
 
does ojimak use the same design process as paragon? and even if he does are we to now say that 2 people using the same design technique cannot share their work?if thats the case everyone shares the same techniques basically . so are we to pull all models off the web because of shared design process?that would certaintly narrow the feild. if paragon designs a f-15 on his own without using ojimaks parts. then it is a parogon design. ojimak has allready endorsed parogons design style.
 
and further more if i use paragons design style to make my own model, than it would be my model not plagerized. paragon is not realeasing ojimak models as his own. and im quite disturbed by this attempt to stifle the creative process!!!!!
 
Peter the Ingrate said:
You asked, so here's my thoughts.
Your decision to "not worry about Ojimak" turns this into pure plagiarism of his style, technique and material, where plagiarism is as defined here
plagiarism - Definitions from Dictionary.com
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Well, I totally disagree!
There are actually limited ways of building a model from a 3 or 4 view scetch and thus any method one tries will be prety close to any other guy's. This should not end up in the old debate over the Soviets copying the American designs in building the MiG 25 (supposedly from the F15) and the Su27 and MIG 29 (from the US F14!!! and F18!). In these debates it is easier understood that one must stop seeing everything as black and white. The russians developed their own planes based on their own research, making use of their own technology available. Since what we know over aerodynamics is pretty much common ground across the globe, the designs finally look similar. The are not plegiarised in any case.
 
i guess any one who uses a 3d program and pepakura to make a model are all plagerizing each other. its the same style. OMG we need to shut down this hobby ! we are all plagerizers!!stooges8aussiehamrpeasoup:lol::razz::-P:flush1::v8:
 
This should not end up in the old debate over the Soviets copying the American designs in building the MiG 25 (supposedly from the F15) and the Su27 and MIG 29 (from the US F14!!! and F18!).
Click to expand...

actually the su-27 was developed from the f-14 that iran gave them.

000-F-14A-Iran-Soviet-1.jpg

there are other examples but............
 
Request for urls

Paragon:

Could you post the urls of the sites that you obtained the pictures/views from? Would like to get more info on a couple of them.

TomW.
 
Which pictures and views? All of the ones I've used period, or the ones I posted a few posts ago, of the non-operational concept aircraft?

Here are the ones I typically use:

þÅÒÔÅÖÉ

The Blueprints - Reference Image Database - 22750+ blueprints online

'+'

And this one is the one I got the new concept ones from. The page provides translations, but it changes the URL, so you have to go to each page from the Russian page, and then translate.

Ñòåëñ Ìàøèíû


Real-life aircraft design "plagiarism" aside, (perhaps the Russian version of the B-29 would be more applicable), the definitions of plagiarism on dictionary.com do not appear to threaten my work in my opinion. The term typically refers to the realm of writing, not the design of objects.
 
I find it`s a shame to associate Paragon `s designs with plagiats :eek:


Of course, I do not understand all the fine points of discussion, I am not a native speaker, but so much has been made clear, Paragon creates a lot of fun for the model builder; I`m one of them and they give me a good kind of recreation after a hard job, and that it is what modelling should do.
That principals of similar construction are similar, what`s the problem?
Or did constructions by GPM differ from Halinski ?

The moment I`m building the Vautour, I don`t know any model before.....
That`s the best to show his way of designing, he doesn`t need others, maybe others need him....
 
I don't need others now, no, but I did before! I started out with a kitbash, and now I design models straight from the blueprints instead. Hopefully I'll be able to continue this way.

Regardless of similarities in construction, Ojimak's website says "I hope you do not modify my data." Unconventional grammar due to translation aside, this seems to me to pretty specifically prohibit the use of his models in design in any way (unless you ask permission). I did not use any of his "data", I did not use his files. I did not trace any of his parts, or recolor any of his parts. None of the Su-56 I've designed was ever a part of Ojimak's model, so I don't feel that it violates his terms.
 
I say : let's ignore Ojimak !!!
What is he going to do? Close the downloads again. Who needs Ojimak's models when Paragon's models are much better. :thumb::thumb::thumb:
Why Ojimak cares so much? No one is steeling from him. Is a free world and as long as Paragon is not copying or modifies Ojimak's models what is the problem.:curse::curse::curse::curse:
After the Patrouille de France episode I've sweared never to make one of Ojimak's models again.:curse::curse::curse::curse:
If I'm too angry please excuse me !!!
 
Peter the Ingrate said:
You asked, so here's my thoughts.
Your decision to "not worry about Ojimak" turns this into pure plagiarism of his style, technique and material, where plagiarism is as defined here
plagiarism - Definitions from Dictionary.com
Click to expand...

Technique and project method are not plagiarism my dear friend. :curse: review their concepts why don't I understand of times in times comes people to participate at the forum with that spirit at mean least. :mad:

Paragon.

I am not fan of the work of Ojimak, but I am fan of his work why with good will and with generosity he offers us great unknown subjects for the manufacturers or designers of models. Comparing carefully what is possible in his technique and in the one of Ojimak I think their models are better.

As for the fact of some solutions be same or similar. Well that happens, it is enough to take a look in most of the commercial models 1/33 of almost identical healthy MiG-29 the construction techniques or in plastic models of whole P-38 he has the same assembly engineering not importing the manufacturer.

I don't know Ojimak, but you have a very larger merit as designer, it is here listening to us and transforming the a lot of modelers' of all of the songs dreams in reality. :thumb:

Cheers !

Péricles
 
I agree, there are only so many ways you can build a model plane out of paper. I guess I'll probably wait for some moderator input on the issue before I upload a finished Su-56. Meanwhile, I've moved on to the design of the swing-wing stealth Chinese plane (probably fictional). Once I finish it, and possibly one or two more, I'll color them, and release them all at once. The Mystere will be one of them.
 
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